LT1's in Late Model EFI ???

[CrawlinRS]

Is there any chance there can be a rules revision for next year to include them in the EFI class ? Over on LS1 Tech there are a lot of guys interested in the class, but they cannot run cause they have a LT1 or LT4. I personally think they should be included. This year I have seen 3, 5, 7 and 9 cars in the EFI class at the events this year. Letting LT1 cars in should help raise the car count. IMO the F-body years should be 93-02.

As for the Fox body Mustangs, I know these guys are going to chime in, but IMO, they should not be even considered for the EFI class. They have a whole series dedicated to them, go there. LT1 cars have no class to run in except Open comp and Brackets. Plus it would be kinda nice to even up the Ford vs. GM car counts in the NMCA.

[Diggler]

i totally agree.

[REDGAR]

I don't see a reason not to let them in

[THEMADTYPH00N]

I completely agree as well. Hell I wish they would let them in Mean Street too, although I doubt that will happen with the opposition your getting to let the LSX cars in. Even though an LT1 could more easily fit those rules.

[VicRattlehead]

i agree as long as you let the ford mn12's (tbird/cougar) in, ive submitted for them a few months ago so hopefully its a go. we can only compete in nmca's oc or nmra's oc/modular. good luck with getting in.

[Matt D]

I think they should be allowed in. How are you going to let in 92 Vipers, but not a 97 Camaro?

[NMCA Aaron]

Guys, make sure you submit your rule chages instead of just posting them here.

And as far as '92 this and '97 that: It has NOTHING to do with the body style of the car. The rules were created around the family of the ENGINE.

Please don't argue with me, I'm not a rules maker, just a messenger.

[REDGAR]

Here is the procedure from the rule book for those would like to submit a request

NMCA RULES COMMITTEE

The NMCA rules are evaluated by the NMCA Rules Committee which is responsible for the rules creation, enforcement, and revisions. The committee for 2007 is composed of Senior Tech Advisor Mike Bruns, James Lawrence, Charlie Harmon, and Scott Sparrow.

IF YOU WANT TO SUBMIT A RULES CHANGE PROPOSAL OR CLARIFICATION.

We have created a procedure for proposing official NMCA rules clarifications to the NMCA rules committee. If you would like to submit a rules change or clarification for consideration, this is the ONLY way to initiate the process.

1. Write a detailed letter to NMCA explaining the specific changes you are suggesting to the printed rulebook. Please refer to class, rulebook section (#1-#13) and specific subheading. Detail the "wording" changes that you are proposing. In the second paragraph, please explain the "reasoning" behind the change, and detail how you believe it will affect the best interests of the class as a whole. Please include your name, car number, and contact information including address, telephone, and e-mail.

Send this e-mail to: tech@fasteststreetcar.com. All e-mails sent to tech@fasteststreetcar.com will be forwarded to the entire NMCA rules committee members.

2. Within two weeks, follow up with any member of the rules committee to get the result of the rules change proposal for consideration to the committee. If you have specific questions from this point forward they should be addressed via e-mail address is tbates@promediapub.com.

3. The NMCA Tech Committee will review the rules change proposal, and NMCA will formally respond in writing to the racer within 2 weeks from original submission. All NMCA formal rules proposals sent in the proper format to tech@fasteststreetcar.com will get a response within 2 weeks.

Thanks for working with us! We appreciate any and all valid input and would be thankful for all constructive help in improving the classes.

[CrawlinRS]

Sorry guys I guess I posted this thread a little early. When I was at Atlanta this weekend they gave all of us the Rules Change Proposal sheet, just like what RedGar posted.

To all you LT1 guys that are interested in the class I suggest you all send and email to the address RedGar posted.

[NMCA Aaron]

Question for you guys that want to allow the LTs: If we go back and add the LTs what do we do with the Ford guys?

[GMCRACER]

I have a L98 in the same body style as an LT1.... can I play.... :D

[REDGAR]

Aaron as a potential Late Model EFI participant that has a car that fits the current rules, I think what the LT1/4 guys argument is "If it is EFI, we should be able to get in,to and EFI class" and I know you don't want to hear it but calling an older viper with EFI a Late Model (what's in a name right?) and not a newer fbody with EFI not a Late Model does not seem to fit with the EFI portion of the class name.

I would imagine a lot of thought went into structuring the class and the intent of "Late Model" referring to the engine types and not necessarily cars bodies or years but as we approach the end of the season at Memphis...NMCA needs to decide if the growth shown can be sustained and increased without changing the rules.

Any class that is index, mixed index at that, is hard to say x body and x motor only. That holds back cars from participating that may want to race and fit the index and thus slows or stops growth.

I don't know much about mustangs but it is index so I'd say let them in too if they have EFI.

[CrawlinRS]

Question for you guys that want to allow the LTs: If we go back and add the LTs what do we do with the Ford guys?

Screw the Ford guys they have their own series !! :eek: LOL, J/K ;)

Seriously,
I think there should be absolutely no fox body (93 and older) Mustangs in the class as I stated before. I'd really like to see this class stay "LATE MODEL." If you let the Fox body Mustangs in then you might as well let the tpi and tbi 82-92 F-bodies in, then you will need to let all the L98 cars in, thats just getting out of control (sorry GMCRACER). I think anything older than 1993 (or 1992 for the Viper) should not be let in the class in order to keep it "Late Model"

To be fair if it helps get the LT1 cars in the class, how about letting the 94 and 95 Mustangs in the class ? I guess those would be the matching body style to the 93-97 LT1 cars. I'm not a Ford guy but I think the 94 and 95 Mustangs were the last cars with the older 302 EFI motors in them anyways.

So, can everyone agree that it would be fair to add 93-97 LT1, LT4 F-bodies and Vettes along with the 94 and 95 Mustangs ?

BTW, I will be sending my thoughts in on a "official" rules change proposal email.

[NMCA Aaron]

Do this:

“In 2007 – 2008 the NMCA will make every effort to release its 2008 preliminary rules by November 15, 2007. If you wish to make an official NMCA rule recommendation and/or request it may only be done in WRITING. Telephone conversations with NMCA officials, staff members and/or contract employees will NOT be considered in Rules Committee discussions. You must submit your 2007 mid-season rules requests for changes no later then June 8, 2007 and you requests to be considered for the 2008 Preliminary Rules must be received no later than September 21, 2007. THESE REQUESTS MUST BE RECEIVED IN WRITING! (MESSAGE BOARD REQUESTS WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED) You may e-mail your recommendations and/or requests to: nmcarules@promediapub.com. Fax to: NMCA RULES, C/O Event Division (714) 444-2509 or US Postal Service to ProMedia/NMCA, C/O Rules, Event Division, 3518 West Lake Center Drive, Suite D. Santa Ana, CA 92704. To be considered, your written request must include the following: Full Name, Class, NMCA Competition Number and membership expiration date. You may or may not receive a written response to your recommendation or request. You may contact the NMCA tech line (714) 460-3813 during the designated hours to insure the validity and confirmation of your rules submission.

[CrawlinRS]

oh, dam, I gotta send my email in tonight.

[REDGAR]

Sent mine in today

[Randy Ferrell]

Hey ya-all,

While we're adding vehicles, or engines to the class, lets not forget the
LQ9 motors / vehicles,( ie SS Pick-ups) that were not allowed in the Class this year, although they have the exact same HP rating as the LS1 version of the same motor.

Thanks

[REDGAR]

Hope you sent the email

[VicRattlehead]

Guys, make sure you submit your rule chages instead of just posting them here.

And as far as '92 this and '97 that: It has NOTHING to do with the body style of the car. The rules were created around the family of the ENGINE.

Please don't argue with me, I'm not a rules maker, just a messenger.


so when you say family of engine do you mean say like the 96+ 4.6L modular engine being in the same family as the 94-97 tbird 4.6L modular engines? being as they are the exact same. (heads, cams, rods pistons cranks blocks etc.)

Aaron, off the record, if you were to be the one to make the call for adding or not adding the 4.6L tbird/cougar what would your vote be?

and yes, ive already sent in my email months ago.

[vrtical]

It has NOTHING to do with the body style of the car. The rules were created around the family of the ENGINE.

if that is the rule, then all the Fords with 4.6L from 94-04 are legal. tbirds,cougars,crown vics,mk8's, etc. I would agree 93 down and 94-95's which are 302 based should not be considered late model.

[NMCA Aaron]

Obviously my wording was off. Because some of you guys kept saying a "Camaro with an LT looks just like a Camaro with a LS motor they should all be allowed" (I'm paraphrasing a little so work with me here) I said what I did. Given that, let me re-phrase: The rules process had LESS to do with the BODY than the ENGINE. I shouldn't have said "NOTHING". Why certain bodys (T-Birds, Cougars, trucks, etc) are not allowed in index racing I have no idea, but again, I'm not a rules maker...Good luck to all of you that turned in your requests.

[Matt D]

Obviously my wording was off. Because some of you guys kept saying a "Camaro with an LT looks just like a Camaro with a LS motor they should all be allowed" (I'm paraphrasing a little so work with me here) I said what I did. Given that, let me re-phrase: The rules process had LESS to do with the BODY than the ENGINE. I shouldn't have said "NOTHING". Why certain bodys (T-Birds, Cougars, trucks, etc) are not allowed in index racing I have no idea, but again, I'm not a rules maker...Good luck to all of you that turned in your requests.

Nobody said you guys should allow LT1 Camaros because they "looked" like the LS1 Camaros. I don't know where the hell you got that from... :rolleyes:

I said you are going to let in 92 Vipers but not 97 Camaros. I was referring to the motor in them (93-97) but I'm sorry you didn't pick up on that. Why is it that every time I make a suggestion to someone at the NMCA that I get my words twisted?

[CrawlinRS]

Why is it that every time I make a suggestion to someone at the NMCA that I get my words twisted?

Your stuttering problem has affected your typing too !! :p

[GMCRACER]

I asked them to let in fuel injected 57 Chevy's and Corvettes.....

[CrawlinRS]

I asked them to let in fuel injected 57 Chevy's and Corvettes.....

LOL, NO MECHANICAL FUEL INJECTION....... Holy pre-mullet years.

[NMCA Aaron]

So then...the answer isn't to change the GM guys, it's to change the Vipers? :rolleyes:

Seriously, that's what I'm seeing. Get rid of of the V10s (they're not showing up anyway) and that way all the years are much closer.

[REDGAR]

Aaron that is an easy answer that might lead one to believe it is no impact but I think there are some guys running GM LT models that are saying they would come to this race. If you take away the V10's then their comparison of the older car/motor being allowed and not them is gets addressed but the rules would still prevent them from participating and that is counter productive to growth.

[Matt D]

It's simple really and I hope I don't blow anyone's mind here with this statement...

There have been no Vipers in the field, and there are MANY LT1 guys who want to run (remember, that is more money for the NMCA), so let the LT1 guys in the class.

[NMCA Aaron]

I understand that part Edgar, however as I've mentioned previously I'm not on the rules commitee. I was only trying to explain the reasons the rules were the way they were.

[VicRattlehead]

aaron,

do you know if they are announcing rules on (or about) 11-15 like the nmra stuff is suppose to be released? just wondering.

[NMCA Aaron]

Vic,
I believe they are, however I would encourage you to call the tech line if you need an official response.

Thanks,
Aaron

[REDGAR]

aaron,

do you know if they are announcing rules on (or about) 11-15 like the nmra stuff is suppose to be released? just wondering.

Vic, I am waiting for Mean Street rules and was told in about three weeks preliminary rules will be posted here.

[9SEC6SPD]

well i sent in my email, i am not about to hold my breath. i asked earlier this year when they would consider any rule changes after the event in ohio, and well no changes.

[VicRattlehead]

well guess i wont be in the nmca for 08. oh well.

seems the nmca wants to let this new late model class die. they are on the right track.

[NMCA Jason]

Keith...you sent in your request.

Why not give us a chance to look it over before you damn us all to hell? :p

[NMCA Scott]

Oh come now Jason, we all know you're already damned, but thanks for thinking about the rest of us.

[NMCA Aaron]

I asked for flatheads to be allowed in Late Model EFI...:confused:

[CrawlinRS]

I just looked over the Prelim rules and I see nothing about adding LT1s to the class. Ohh well I guess better luck next year guys.

[vrtical]

Keith...you sent in your request.

Why not give us a chance to look it over before you damn us all to hell? :p

too late :D you know those Tbird guys are like the mafia.

[THEMADTYPH00N]

I just looked over the Prelim rules and I see nothing about adding LT1s to the class. Ohh well I guess better luck next year guys.

Guess its back to true street.

[9SEC6SPD]

lmmfao!!! damn the lt1's. hell it has a carb on it doesn't it?